POLAND AND THE WORLD

What are the problems confronting Poland’s foreign policy today?
That is a difficult question. On the one hand, we should regard ourselves as children of fortune, because the dreams of our past generations have been met. For the first time in centuries Poland has stable borders and is a member of the European Union and NATO. We can assume that the cards we have been dealt on Europe will be in our hand for a very long time. I cannot say that this will be forever because such a concept does not exist. Our economy is receiving a level of financial assistance where the sky is the limit: it is greater than the post-war Marshall Plan for individual countries of Western Europe. Thanks to this, over the next 7-10 years Poland will make a developmental leap that will be felt by everyone. The role of the national government will be to assist local government and business in going through this process by ensuring the implementation of a modern and effective regulatory system. This must be supported by Poland’s foreign policy. And over the last 17 years, despite some singular exceptions, it has served this aim well.

Has there not been perhaps a loss of continuity in Poland’s foreign policy?
I don’t think so, although the last year brought with it worrying changes. Our partners abroad, as well as Polish public opinion, are concerned by what is being said by politicians, especially on the governing side. We must weigh our words carefully in foreign affairs and remain on our guard. Words uttered by our politicians become almost self-perpetuating, sometimes maybe against the author’s original intentions. The highest ranking representatives of the team currently in power, in other words, the president, prime minister and the minister of foreign affairs, are making radical changes in the structure of the state. However, we had a revolution not so long ago, after 1989. The slogans of radical change are usually very attractive to the young. But, I would not call what is happening currently as a revolt of the younger generations, but as a revolution of back-biting. Furthermore, it is affecting the tenets of liberal democracy, which we had opted for earlier, and it is leading us towards a democracy which is controlled and directed: in the style of the Polish People’s Republic where society was supervised.

Are we seeing attempts to centralise decision-making?
The whole tradition of the democratic opposition of the 1970s and the 1980s, like in modern liberal societies, is based on encouraging independence and local government: on delegating decision making to the lowest possible level of organised society. However, today we are faced with a centralisation of state power. This is how our situation is being perceived by the West. This is causing concern because Europe is now at a different stage in its democratic development. Of course, we are not obliged in any way to follow other countries’ specific ways of dealing with issues but there are certain basic canons that must be observed. In a liberal democracy, one of them is the idea of inclusiveness. It comes down to the fact that even if a minority does not agree with the decisions made by a majority, the rights of the minority are still respected. What is more, efforts are made to include it on the agenda of the state and local government. Such an approach helps to build a wider consensus. However, today we have a situation in which everybody, who does not agree with the ruling elite nor exhibits enough enthusiasm for them, is being excluded. That is being noted and is causing anxiety. The “Financial Times” has even written recently about “political purges”.

Does the problem lie in the psyche of the people holding power?
The root of the problem lies in the political ambitions of the people who are today in power but who after 1989 found themselves sidelined from the mainstream of Polish politics. They believe that there is a huge post-communist conspiracy hidden behind the democratic changes which took place in Poland and behind the 17-year building of a free market system. That all previous governing elites were tied political or personally, in other words, they had common personal, political, social and often family interests. In every particular case such people must be replaced. But the current ruling elite does not have at its service competent managers with any managerial qualifications. The only hope is that after 2-3 years they will gain knowledge and experience. But it is not that straightforward. Maturing into the role of a manager or a decision maker is a slow process.

Are the Kaczyński brothers afraid of Europe and the world at large?
I do not know if it is a question of fear. I can, though, assess their policies. Neither the president nor the premier, understand the world or the European Union. They are both strong traditionalists. I believe that it is due to their lack of understanding of the mechanisms behind the functioning of today’s world, including the tortuous world of diplomacy. You cannot fail to notice that they have shortcomings in the interpersonal skills that are essential in the subtle interplay between official and private relations. Skills in making friends with foreign politicians or in building bonds of mutual trust are much more important than formal ties, especially when difficult situations arise. Well, the Kaczyński brothers do not have such qualities, partly due to their past histories. Fearing goodness knows what they are in addition failing to build a team of effective advisers around themselves.

Is the language barrier a problem?
Whenever the Centre for International Relations begins making preparations for a conference, to be held either in English, German or French, we receive regrets from many Polish politicians, with the reason that they are unable to communicate in any spoken language apart from Polish. Sometimes our invited guests cancel their visit, as they feel it is too difficult to run a discussion through interpreters.

Why have our relations with the Germans worsened?
I cannot confirm this. We must remember that in Germany, because of the new generation in power, there has been a renewal of debate amongst historians about the dramatic 20^th century history of the country. But if, occasionally, some writer or academic out of a personal need raises the issue of German responsibility for the Second World War and its consequences, including those affecting the Germans themselves as individuals, and we do not like it, then our reactions are often not in proportion to the scale of the event. If we add to this the material damages claimed by the Prussian Trust or the political demands of the Union of the Expelled – here, in fact, our fears have grounds. We must accept that certain circles in Germany and Poland have said a lot of stupid things about our mutual relations. Poland and the Poles do not exist in the mind of the German elites in the same way as do the British or French elites. Therefore, the Germans are only just learning about us, and becoming used to the fact that we are an important part of a common Europe, in other words, the European Union. For some it may be a shock to find that Poland occupies a position on the same level as a partner on European issues, that we have the right of veto and that we should be treated seriously. An ability to perceive differences is very important, as it creates a space in which sensible policies may be pursued. The so-called “historical policy” is a problem and must be skilfully used, for it cannot replace the politics of the state and its diplomacy – it can only supplement them. In this field we are faced with important real problems, such as the issues of energy supply. Politics and diplomacy must serve in resolving problems and tying up coalitions, etc, but not in sulking. This does not lead to anything constructive. And in Europe this is being noted and assessed. In the opinion of many political and journalistic circles in the West, Poland has stopped playing an important role as a partner. This weakens our position, especially when everyone is noticing the deterioration in the situation to the East.

So what are our political options with respect to Russia?
Poland’s membership of NATO and the European Union, our activism in the east, and our support for the independence and democratisation of such countries as Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia, all provoke disquiet in Russia as well as displeasure and attempts at isolationism. On the other hand, Moscow’s European and global policies cause concern in Warsaw, Berlin, Paris, London and Washington. It is a fact that Europe needs Russia as a supplier of fuels and as a partner in seeking solutions to many problems around the world which cannot be resolved without Moscow’s involvement, e.g. Iran, North Korea, the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and the war on terrorism. Today’s ruler of Russia believes that what happened under Yeltsin, in other words, the collapse of the USSR, was “the most tragic event of 20^th century history”. Russia, strengthened nowadays by the supply of cash from the sale of oil and gas, wants to play a bigger role on the international arena. And the West accepts this; proof of which was the recent G-8 summit in Saint Petersburg, or will be the forthcoming November EU-Russia conference. European and Polish diplomats must face up to the Russian colossus on clay legs, a country which is only half democratic, illiberal, and has strong nationalistic tendencies. My view is that there will not be any meaningful improvement in relations with Russia for the simple reason that we have competing interests with respect to countries such as: Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, and Azerbaijan. Russia knows that Poland supports on principle the independence movements of those countries. Russia knows that Poland wants to bind those countries with ties that will integrate them with the West. Russia, however, is trying to bring together the post-Soviet nations under its own wings. This rivalry means that we do have actual reasons for mutual irritation. But this does not mean that we do not have any common interests. Furthermore, like many other countries, we fear that Moscow will try to use energy as weapon to bring political pressure to bear on matters of prime strategic importance.

We must then build a strong position for ourselves in Europe. But whom can we partner with?
I fully support what Prof. Zbigniew Brzeziński has said: the sources of strong Polish influence on Washington as well as good future relations with Russia are the closest possible friendly relations with Germany, because it is the Germans alongside the United Kingdom who are the main allies of America in Europe. It is the Germans who are the most pro-American country, when it comes to the strategy and vision concerning the development of Europe and the world. A strong Poland side-by-side with its allies within the European Union, is a desirable ally for America. A Poland which is in conflict with its neighbours – partners in the EU - is a country of no particular importance.

So how can we improve our relations with the Germans?
I am hearing many words of good will, maybe even too many. However, there are no positive initiatives from the Polish side. But the Germans too must pay more attention to Polish expectations and concerns in both economic as well as geopolitical matters. I hope that this will happen.

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